Since I would consider myself one of those, I would say it hardly matters where the wine comes from. Yes, sometimes I'll go in and I'll look at the specific country that a wine has come from, but more often than not I'll go for a bottle that looks nice (oh my god people actually do that?) is made from a grape that I've heard of (oh no... has he no taste at all?) and has a name that rings a bell (bah philistine...). If I've had it before and remember it being nice then I'll more than likely buy it again.

After all brands such as "Old Git" and "Fat Bastard" and "Chicken" (I think - not sure about that last one) are hardly descriptive of origin or grape, yet are quite popular (judging by the bottles that people bring to parties). So, in the end, what does grape or country really matter to the average man in the street? Given that the national beverage of choice is Bitter/Ale/Guiness/Lager/Tea and that these come from all over the place (Yorkshire Tea???) AND sell well, it is not surprising that Thresher's have come up with the same concept for wine.

As for liquids like the Old Geysers and their ilk... tasting them once is good enough to generate tender memories of any Beaujolais Nouveau... Using them as paint remover is no good as they stain the walls...

Is this the future of wine?

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Originally posted by Reza

After all brands such as "Old Git" and "Fat Bastard" ... are hardly descriptive of origin or grape

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Neither is Ch Mouton Rothschild descriptive of origin or grape. But labels on that and Old Git & Fat Bastard have details of their origin and grapes used (except of course) Mouton.

And Fat Bastard is an allusion to Batard Montrachet that the wine cognescenti will pick up.

Also, the label of Mouton R does show that it is made in France.

Incidentally, I thought that the name Fat Bastard had to do with the South African influence, clearly visible on the label with the large hippo...

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Originally posted by Martin

I am not too sure of the point you are trying to make

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just that there is no difference between the name Fat Bastard and Mouton Rothschild. Both are just names which do not identify the origin of the wine (unless you recognise the name)

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the label of Mouton R does show that it is made in France

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I thought that the name Fat Bastard had to do with the South African influence, clearly visible on the label with the large hippo...

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Originally posted by Matt Fox

My wine merchant told me that "Fat Bastard" is a term used to refer to a full-bodied, red wine ....
Is my wine guy correct or misinformed?

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Its not an expression I've ever heard used when describing wine.

If your wine merchant was referring to the Fat Bastard wine then he probably read the back label. In the US the company's Syrah is also sold under the FB label (presumably because they couldn't get BATF approval for its original name 'Utter Bastard').

The back label of FBs sold in the USA say that FB is an English wine description.

Enquirers in the UK are told that French winemaker Thierry Boudinard had been working in Australia and picked up some heavily Australian accented Englsih words there and he tasted the wine and said this wine is a real Fat Bastard, thus implying FB is an Aussie term.

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Whatever - its been an incredible marketing success, the wine is good, and I get more emails about that one wine than the other 200+ labels

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Does this not then prove my point and answer the original question?

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Threshers have found that customers don't care where wine comes from and have launched a range of wines called 'origin' that can be from anywhere? Do WE care?

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Originally posted by Reza

Does this not then prove my point and answer the original question?

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I don't think so. Fat Bastard is always made by the same winery from the same appelation, whereas the Origin Chardonnay, for example, will be sourced from different countries/places.

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Originally posted by eric

Peter, is the label visible on your site yet? Do you have a link for us all to see it?

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Fat Bastard is, but Origins isn't - and won't be since its there's nothing unusual or amusing about it.

I think the original news item that sparked this thread about Origins mislead us. The writer said that "the wine's origin is actually of least importance", but that is not the case. If you look at the Origins labels (and there's a picture with the original article - see http://www.decanter.com/news/newsdefault.asp?newsstoryid=1050 - the wine is a New Zealand Sauvignon Blanc. There is a large outline of NZ and the word Marlborough is large and clearly readable even in this small picture.

And I think the name Origins shows the intention - the origin is important.

This seems to me to be a brand name, like many others, such as Stowells, or Mondavi. (Yes, Mondavi. They've imported southern French wine and sold it under the Mondavi label)

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Originally posted by clara

so we all agree then, this is great.

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It'd be a sad day for the discussion board if we all agree on everything.

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Originally posted by eric

Ah, we got hold of a pic

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So what's wrong with the picture in the link I gave on my post of 13 March?

Have a look here:

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Originally posted by eric

Nothing wrong with the pic on your link Peter, but we just got another one sent to us, so it does not hurt to try to please everybody and reward them for their efforts :). More importantly, has anyone actually tasted the plonk?

Have a look here:

http://www.ukwinesonline.co.uk/Wines/ourWines.asp?gid=2314&tid=r

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Eric - Who sent it to you? Its a terrible picture, and youhave filled in the tasting note section and not said anything about tasting it.

The range does comprise 3 white and 3 red wines that could be described as plonk with price levels at £3.99 to £5.99. But there are also Reserve wines with the Sauvignon Blanc set at £8.99. The Pinot was £5.99. The Threshers I went to didn’t have the Californian Zinfandel I wanted sadly.

The Sauvignons packaging shows where the money has gone – a heavy bottle, a thick metal seal and a classy label. The tasting note for the Sauvignon has just been posted on UKWinesOnline -

www.ukwinesonline.co.uk/Wines/ourWines.asp?ST=2&SS=origin%20sauvignon&ST2=31

“Radcliffe’s Regional Classics is all about bringing together the classics from Europe, targeted at high income families <UGH!!> who have grown up with this style of wine, but still find that selecting the best examples is confusing, simply because there is no branding to speak of - until now."

“... builds on the proposition established by Origin, but is focused around regions rather than the most popular global wine varietals. We have created a range where every wine has its own story, capturing the nuance of its region, ....”

The labels are all more elegant than anything from a supermarket and I suspect will go down well at dinner parties.

Anyone tried them? I hope the content matches the labels.

Interesting that General Bilimoria (of Cobra Beer) have re-packaged plonk (IMHO) with a posh label.

Having tried a few of the Origin range, I don't rate them as quality wines, but they don't aspire to be either. What is important is that they do demonstrate the broad differences in appearance, nose & palate that define a varietal. Certainly well enough to demonstrate differences to novice tasters.

Aren't we missing the point here about Origins. I sometimes crave the simple dependable dish of Beans on Toast after I have spent a weekend on a gastronomic orgy. I don't want to test my nose and palate constantly.

http://www.letstalkwine.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=316&SearchTerms=pasta

For £3.99 I really can't complain and it certainly didn't taste all that much worse than a £4.99 bottle (although for some peculiar reason recently - for the past few months anyway - the average price I pay for a bottle of wine seems to have increased )

The label did declare that out of 1200 wines tasted, that this one was chosen to bear the Origin label. If I hadn't experienced the London Wines and Spirits Trade fair for myself I would've been impressed by that number .

My first assessment last night was "very disappointed". All I got was some dusty berry fruit, smoke and oak. I put the cork back in and just sampled another glass tonight. The wine seems to have opened out after 24 hours with a headier aroma and a hint of Margaux perfume and much softer fruit and tannins (tasted stewed last night).

Maybe - this is an oddity from Theshers that will improve with a few years in the bottle. Unusual for Threshers as they sell wine for immediate consumption.

I am keen to hear from others who have sampled the Radcliffe's range.

As for disappointing wines, I find the word FRANCE fits the bill. Bordeaux sells some expensive dry, diluted plonk often over priced and even the good stuff (Leoville Barton and Pomerol I have enjoyed on a number of occasions) is pricey when compared with outstanding New World wines such as Montes Alpha or Santa Rita Floresta. But at least the South of France is making an effort to give consumers value for money and some exciting wines.

I enjoyed the banter around the funny label names. This gives rise to fanciful names such as eu de toilet (for dilute Bordeaux) and Coonawarra Conserve (for those syruppy jammy Ozzie's).

Couldn't agree more. Don't we all want 'comfort wine' now and then? (I've adapted the term 'comfort food,' used in the US for the sort of dish that Beans on Toast represents in the UK. And maybe Chip Butties, too.)

I don't much like either term; the original smacks too much of baby food. But perhaps we're all thinking along the lines of 'companionable'?

As for Jancis Robinson's comment: in the same circumstances (although my tastings are seldom of the greatest wines), my palate cries out for a beer.

I'm often uneasy about terroir. I've sometimes had the impression that some people use it as a badge or a club whilst pretending to more knowledge or discrimination than they actually possess. I'm not sure it's sacred. "So it's all about the dirt, then?" a pal irreverently asked on being told of Bordeaux made from cabernet (most of them) and Bordeaux made from merlot (Petrus). Surely there are terroirs that a wine-maker might want to avoid?

I'm interested in origins and AOCs and DOCs and such when they help me return to something I've liked but I can't see using them as a starting point. How many people missed out on the early Tignanellos because they were labeled mere 'vino da tavola' and hardly anyone had heard of Bolgheri?

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Originally posted by eric

Well the Origin Range has sold 3.5 million bottles in 7 months... That must be a success then! Threshers are now expanding with Baginbox, sparkling and small bottles... well done!

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Minor detail is that Thresher's Origin plays down the country of origin and focuses on the grape varierty.

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Originally posted by Henry Williams
[br
Minor detail is that Thresher's Origin plays down the country of origin and focuses on the grape varierty.

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